tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post4866673299005513561..comments2024-03-26T04:25:27.186-07:00Comments on Seattle Opera Blog: The Wagner ProblemSeattle Operahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04003665787231048819noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-36013786021760168912018-05-14T23:40:41.711-07:002018-05-14T23:40:41.711-07:00zzzzz2018.5.15
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It's not new nor are the people involved in an honest discussion of this crackpots or lacking "real thought".Felicia Mehlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-7979009183950526232009-08-22T19:36:11.417-07:002009-08-22T19:36:11.417-07:00Going back to my original comment, I have difficul...Going back to my original comment, I have difficulty with the character of Alberich. I also have difficulty with the character of Shylock, although I do not doubt Shakespeare's genius.<br /><br />I have been researching this issue and I thought since there was a post on your blog, there could be a meaningful discussion. Nothing I see here is new or particularly insightful. Perhaps you should read some of the articles written about this by the organizers of Bayreuth, in the Jewish press or academia.Felicia Mehlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-27944643988410370172009-08-22T09:06:47.206-07:002009-08-22T09:06:47.206-07:00Or, for that matter, other artists, like writers, ...Or, for that matter, other artists, like writers, painters, poets. Charles Dickens, Shakespeare, T.S. Eliot, just to name a few in English. I think that the attitude "Im against Wagner because Wagner was against Jews" is an easy canard, an easy slur, rendering the speaker so-called "moral" without any real thought or moral philosophy. Stupid really. And unfortunately, since I firmly believe that the total thrust of Wagner's dramatic and musical work is AGAINST any such intolerance as anti-Semitism.Perry Lorenzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15005573510329372636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-54143938849486918132009-08-22T00:22:17.827-07:002009-08-22T00:22:17.827-07:00Aside from Wagner there were other famous composer...Aside from Wagner there were other famous composers who held anti-Semitic views, as well as some who have been accused of anti-Semitism and were NOT. <br /><br />Does this mean we should ban the performance of compositions by anti-Semitic composers? I think not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-69665550687419992162009-08-20T22:31:06.578-07:002009-08-20T22:31:06.578-07:00I should add: Wagner was a serious artist, who too...I should add: Wagner was a serious artist, who took ideas seriously. His anti-Semitism is not merely a personal/psychological matter (i.e. "fear" that his father may have been Jewish, or bad personal/professional relations with Meyerbeer), not for himself, and not for us (insofar as we would take Wagner seriously, and we should). Contrariwise, the simply bourgeois takes everything (merely) personally.hyperbolusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-22384200123909426982009-08-20T21:31:55.319-07:002009-08-20T21:31:55.319-07:00I earlier tried to explain the nature of Wagner...I earlier tried to explain the nature of Wagner's anti-Semitism, that it replaced his anti-capitalism. We might map this as a move from Bakunin, through Schopenhauer, to Gobineau; so, from revolutionary anarchism, through pessimism/depoliticization, to reactionary racism. Many 1960s radicals made a similar move, into New Age-ism, ecology, and even neo-conservatism.<br /><br />I agree that Wagner is anti-Christian (I have no idea what he thought, if anything, of Islam). The Ring is meant as a kind of parody, a replacement, of Judeo-Christianity--Moses/Yahweh becomes Wotan, Jesus becomes Siegfried. I have no doubt Wagner meant the Ring as a real religious festival, neo-pagan I guess. What I do not know, not having seen it, is if Parsifal is a repudiation or confirmation or revision of the Ring.hyperbolusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-90302584287629545502009-08-20T18:56:12.173-07:002009-08-20T18:56:12.173-07:00To Hyberbolus: No, Wagner was not absolutely for ...To Hyberbolus: No, Wagner was not absolutely for sure an anti-semite. There are many sorts of anti-semitism: which sort of Wagner's if any? That's what we need to see. And if we can name Wagner as an anti-Semite, then to be fair we must name him all the more largely an anti-Christian/Jew/Muslim. For all his life Wagner was indeed against western religion. I imagine there are lots of movie directors in Hollywood today who share this ideology. And just add the intensity of the anti-Jewish attitude, on account, let's say, of this hypothetical movie director's personal frustration with Jewish producers early in his career. This is exactly the path Wagner's own attitudes developed.Perry Lorenzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15005573510329372636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-53658364882798728052009-08-20T18:43:52.651-07:002009-08-20T18:43:52.651-07:00Wagner was an anti-Semite, that cannot be honestly...Wagner was an anti-Semite, that cannot be honestly denied. And at least some of his operas bear traces of his anti-Semitism. How could it be otherwise? It's a fantasy to believe that anyone's ideology can be hermetically separated from his work, even or perhaps especially in the case of an "artist". But Wagner's very greatness (and indeed subtlety) as an artist means we don't have to share his attitudes to enjoy or appreciate his art. But it's best to be maximally conscious. So, for example, just because "we" don't hear the word "bourgeois" anymore doesn't mean there are no more bourgeoisie. Quite the contrary.hyperbolusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-3214464092484743832009-08-20T07:08:41.218-07:002009-08-20T07:08:41.218-07:00Indeed this is one of the most important issues bu...Indeed this is one of the most important issues burning around the figure of Richard Wagner. As a Wagner-lover, and as a Christian who despises even the least appearance of anti-semitism in any of our cultural monuments, I am deeply worried by the continued fire of this question and would like to address it.<br /><br />I do not think Richard Wagner's operas are anti-semitic at all. Remember that Richard Wagner wrote a lot of prose about his operas, more than most people would ever want to read. I have read all of it. And never, never once, have I found a prose passage in which Wagner connected his operas to a clear anti-semetic ideology. Now Richard Wagner was capable of many many things: arrogance, overcompensation, unclarity, endlessness. But one thing he wasn't capable of was SUBTELTY: and if Richard Wagner had wanted to be anti-semetic in his operas, if he had wanted us to have anti-semetical feelings in his operas, he would have made it abundantly clear. <br /><br />In fact, I think it does a grave diservice to the reality of the suffering of 20th and 21st century suffering victms of anti-semitism to simplisitically blame Wagner as an anti-semite in his operas. He wasn't.Perry Lorenzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15005573510329372636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-17246468837396969102009-08-20T05:59:40.129-07:002009-08-20T05:59:40.129-07:00Bourgeois. That's a word we haven't heard...Bourgeois. That's a word we haven't heard in a while. Does anybody analyze in terms of Marxist dialectic anymore, except maybe in France? Aah..Paris..1968..the left bank...Red Rudi...those were the good old days.Sam Fontainenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-8165173044632022512009-08-19T15:35:35.272-07:002009-08-19T15:35:35.272-07:00What is the meaning of Wagner's anti-Semitism?...What is the meaning of Wagner's anti-Semitism? Wagner was a Romantic, a bourgeois revolutionary, which is to say after the French Revolution a pseudo-revolutionary. He traded his anti-capitalism for anti-Semitism, the Jew being a symbol, token, embodiment of capitalism. He left real politics for symbolic, token, identity politics, for anti-politics. This move, this mix, is evident in the Ring. And it's our problem today, as well.hyperbolusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-26344369910302417812009-08-19T09:34:14.048-07:002009-08-19T09:34:14.048-07:00Do we throw out Shakespeare with the toilet water ...Do we throw out Shakespeare with the toilet water because he created the character of Shylock??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-69744066716587583962009-08-18T14:39:08.372-07:002009-08-18T14:39:08.372-07:00Alberich is the character which causes the most di...Alberich is the character which causes the most difficulty for me. There are a lot of different opinions on this and I think it's great that you all are discussing it. For myself, I find it difficult to enjoy art when I believe the art represents beliefs which conflict with the rights of others, even if it's not so explicit. There are many examples of this in art, music and literature. And I do believe we are influenced by the art we experience. <br />Maybe one of the answers is the creation of new operas which reflect our own (the modern audience's) ideas.Felicia Mehlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5630356600537382212.post-76641676651736154492009-08-18T10:31:44.245-07:002009-08-18T10:31:44.245-07:00Uh...Alberich is often held up as a Jewish caricat...Uh...Alberich is often held up as a Jewish caricature, not just Mime.Lisa Hirschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14014924958428072675noreply@blogger.com